5 Nov
2019
5 Nov
'19
1:44 p.m.
Hello,
Once again I wonder about switching these mailing lists to
Discourse¹.
Do you have Feelings?
https://doodle.com/poll/28bp29r3uuwp6h68
(not a vote, just a survey)
Cheers,
Andy
¹ https://www.discourse.org/
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
5 Nov
5 Nov
2:22 p.m.
As much as I like Discourse quite a lot (at least, it's the only web
forum which doesn't make me hate it - all the others have an awful UI
which gratuitously wastes screen space and encourages intolerably huge
off-topic threads), it would be yet another place to visit in addition
to my email inbox and the other million places I have to check daily.
Email seems to work great here, so why change it? A mild -1 from me.
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 13:45, Andy Smith <andy(a)bitfolk.com> wrote:
Hello,
Once again I wonder about switching these mailing lists to
Discourse¹.
Do you have Feelings?
https://doodle.com/poll/28bp29r3uuwp6h68
(not a vote, just a survey)
Cheers,
Andy
¹ https://www.discourse.org/
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)lists.bitfolk.com
https://lists.bitfolk.com/mailman/listinfo/users
2:27 p.m.
Hello,
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 02:22:21PM +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
it would be yet another place to visit in addition
to my email inbox and the other million places I have to check daily.
Did you know about mailing list mode for Discourse? I'm on 6
Discourse sites at the moment and consume them all through my email
inbox, although admittedly I do tend to click the link and compose a
reply by web (you don't have to though; email replies work).
Email seems to work great here, so why change it?
It does not seem to work great for everyone, and that's just the
people that I notice trying to use it and failing.
Cheers,
Andy
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
2:41 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 14:27, Andy Smith <andy(a)bitfolk.com> wrote:
Hello,
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 02:22:21PM +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
I'm not sure - I receive digest emails from other Discourse forums and
I don't find them entirely helpful with my workflows. I guess there
is also a "one email per message" mode which I haven't tried?
it would be yet another place to visit in
addition
to my email inbox and the other million places I have to check daily.
Did you know about mailing list mode for Discourse? I'm on 6
Discourse sites at the moment and consume them all through my email
inbox, although admittedly I do tend to click the link and compose a
reply by web (you don't have to though; email replies work).
Ah OK, got it. Well, my -1 just got milder then ;-)
Email seems to work great here, so why change it?
It does not seem to work great for everyone, and that's just the
people that I notice trying to use it and failing.
3:34 p.m.
Hello,
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 02:41:07PM +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
The deck's being stacked somewhat by asking a mailing list what they
think of something that's not a mailing list, but I thought it might
be interesting to see how many genuinely do prefer it even if it
comes out as a minority.
There really are people who don't get along with email, find it
outmoded and awkward etc. But maybe not enough of them to pay
attention to (yet).
Cheers,
Andy
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 14:27, Andy Smith
<andy(a)bitfolk.com> wrote:
Yes, it's in that area of the settings. Changing it to "mailing list
mode" sends one email per response, they are threaded and you can
just reply to them in email to reply.
They are HTML though. A battle I gave up on years ago.
Did you know about mailing list mode for
Discourse?
I'm not sure - I receive digest emails from other Discourse forums and
I don't find them entirely helpful with my workflows. I guess there
is also a "one email per message" mode which I haven't tried? It does not
seem to work great for everyone, and that's just the
people that I notice trying to use it and failing.
Ah OK, got it. Well, my -1 just got milder then ;-)
3:42 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 15:35, Andy Smith <andy(a)bitfolk.com> wrote:
Hello,
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 02:41:07PM +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
Ah yeah, thanks for helping me realise why I had a bad feeling in the
pit of my stomach about this ;-)
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 14:27, Andy Smith
<andy(a)bitfolk.com> wrote:
Yes, it's in that area of the settings. Changing it to "mailing list
mode" sends one email per response, they are threaded and you can
just reply to them in email to reply.
They are HTML though. A battle I gave up on years ago. Did you know about mailing list mode for
Discourse?
I'm not sure - I receive digest emails from other Discourse forums and
I don't find them entirely helpful with my workflows. I guess there
is also a "one email per message" mode which I haven't tried? There really are people who don't get along with
email, find it
outmoded and awkward etc.
I wonder how such people would survive in the real world. Don't they
have jobs?! ;-)
3:53 p.m.
"I wonder how such people would survive in the real world. Don't they
have jobs?! ;-)"
Not really sure how to take that comment. Not every job in the world
revolves around email, does it.
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 15:43, Adam Spiers <bitfolk(a)adamspiers.org> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 15:35, Andy Smith
<andy(a)bitfolk.com> wrote:
Hello,
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 02:41:07PM +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
Ah yeah, thanks for helping me realise why I had a bad feeling in the
pit of my stomach about this ;-)
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 14:27, Andy Smith
<andy(a)bitfolk.com> wrote:
Yes, it's in that area of the settings. Changing it to "mailing list
mode" sends one email per response, they are threaded and you can
just reply to them in email to reply.
They are HTML though. A battle I gave up on years ago. Did you know about mailing list mode for
Discourse?
I'm not sure - I receive digest emails from other Discourse forums and
I don't find them entirely helpful with my workflows. I guess there
is also a "one email per message" mode which I haven't tried? There really are people who don't get along
with email, find it
outmoded and awkward etc.
I wonder how such people would survive in the real world. Don't they
have jobs?! ;-)
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)lists.bitfolk.com
https://lists.bitfolk.com/mailman/listinfo/users
4:16 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 15:53, Keith Williams <keithwilliamsnp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
"I wonder how such people would survive in the real world. Don't they
have jobs?! ;-)"
Not really sure how to take that comment. Not every job in the world revolves around
email, does it.
Sure, but we aren't talking about every job in the world here. Maybe
we got a bit off topic but I think this mail vs. forums debate is only
relevant to people who are technically savvy enough to be customers of
Bitfolk.
3:42 p.m.
I much prefer a web based forum, easily searchable by topic for one thing.
As it can be used in email mode as well, then that is available also for
those who prefer it.
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 14:41, Adam Spiers <bitfolk(a)adamspiers.org> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 14:27, Andy Smith
<andy(a)bitfolk.com> wrote:
Hello,
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 02:22:21PM +0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
I'm not sure - I receive digest emails from other Discourse forums and
I don't find them entirely helpful with my workflows. I guess there
is also a "one email per message" mode which I haven't tried?
it would be yet another place to visit in
addition
to my email inbox and the other million places I have to check daily.
Did you know about mailing list mode for Discourse? I'm on 6
Discourse sites at the moment and consume them all through my email
inbox, although admittedly I do tend to click the link and compose a
reply by web (you don't have to though; email replies work).
Ah OK, got it. Well, my -1 just got milder then ;-)
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)lists.bitfolk.com
https://lists.bitfolk.com/mailman/listinfo/users
Email seems to work great here, so why change it?
It does not seem to work great for everyone, and that's just the
people that I notice trying to use it and failing. 
6:22 p.m.
On 2019-11-05 15:44+0000, Adam Spiers wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 15:43, Keith Williams
<keithwilliamsnp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Honestly, once you start using limits and tags, you never really want to
use anything else.
<http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/#patterns>
--
Best regards,
Ed http://www.s5h.net/
I much prefer a web based forum, easily
searchable by topic for one thing.
Doesn't everyone have searchable email too these days? 
4:36 p.m.
Yep - as much as I dislike e-mail, it's the one thing I check every
day. So +1 for e-mail from me.
I wouldn't want yet-another-communication-app on my phone and/or browser
for a single purpose. I'd forget it existed and it would become bloatware.
That said, if you can make discourse auto-forward to e-mail, and for
discourse to handle responses via e-mail replies, then I doubt I'd tell
the difference, right? In this instances I'd see no reason to spoil
other people's fun - they can have their app, and I'll correspond by e-mail?
On 05/11/2019 14:22, Adam Spiers wrote:
As much as I like Discourse quite a lot (at least,
it's the only web
forum which doesn't make me hate it - all the others have an awful UI
which gratuitously wastes screen space and encourages intolerably huge
off-topic threads), it would be yet another place to visit in addition
to my email inbox and the other million places I have to check daily.
Email seems to work great here, so why change it? A mild -1 from me.
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 13:45, Andy Smith <andy(a)bitfolk.com> wrote:
Hello,
Once again I wonder about switching these mailing lists to
Discourse¹.
Do you have Feelings?
https://doodle.com/poll/28bp29r3uuwp6h68
(not a vote, just a survey)
Cheers,
Andy
¹ https://www.discourse.org/
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)lists.bitfolk.com
https://lists.bitfolk.com/mailman/listinfo/users
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)lists.bitfolk.com
https://lists.bitfolk.com/mailman/listinfo/users
6:01 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 16:37, Phil <phil(a)beadling.co.uk> wrote:
I wouldn't want yet-another-communication-app on
my phone and/or browser
for a single purpose. I'd forget it existed and it would become bloatware.
That said, if you can make discourse auto-forward to e-mail, and for
discourse to handle responses via e-mail replies, then I doubt I'd tell the
difference, right? In this instances I'd see no reason to spoil other
people's fun - they can have their app, and I'll correspond by e-mail?
Have I misunderstood something here? Does Discourse require an app? I
understood it was accessed via a browser, the discourse site talks about
the minimum browser requirements on computer and mobile devices. In which
case access is as simple as email using applications that you have there
already
6:15 p.m.
** Keith Williams <keithwilliamsnp(a)gmail.com> [2019-11-05 18:01]:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 16:37, Phil
<phil(a)beadling.co.uk> wrote:
** end quote [Keith Williams]
It works with a browser, or you can configure it to work like a mailing list
with digests or individual emails. The downside to emails can be formatting,
although I work with Mutt primarily and use either Firefox as an HTML viewer or
Thunderbird if I need to view things with an HTML capable client.
Take a look at https://discourse.ubuntu.com/ or https://help.nextcloud.com/ to
see what things look like.
--
Paul Tansom | Aptanet Ltd. | https://www.aptanet.com/ | 023 9238 0001
=============================================================================
Registered in England | Company No: 4905028 | Registered Office: Ralls House,
Parklands Business Park, Forrest Road, Denmead, Waterlooville, Hants, PO7 6XP
I wouldn't want yet-another-communication-app
on my phone and/or browser
for a single purpose. I'd forget it existed and it would become bloatware.
That said, if you can make discourse auto-forward to e-mail, and for
discourse to handle responses via e-mail replies, then I doubt I'd tell the
difference, right? In this instances I'd see no reason to spoil other
people's fun - they can have their app, and I'll correspond by e-mail?
Have I misunderstood something here? Does Discourse require an app? I
understood it was accessed via a browser, the discourse site talks about
the minimum browser requirements on computer and mobile devices. In which
case access is as simple as email using applications that you have there
already 
5:12 p.m.
I'd prefer Discourse, mostly for selfish reasons, but also for the fact
that others can continue to use it like the mailing list should they prefer.
I'm not intimately familiar with it but as I understand it largely offers
the same features as the mailing list and more (allowing interaction via
email, a richer and more modern GUI for searching / subscribing to specific
topics, SSO for integration with Bitfolk's LDAP etc.)
I have a significant dislike of email which seems to only get worse with
time, so if having discourse allows me to more easily interact
and keep track of current and previous discussions, but also more
selectively subscribe to certain topics (and opt out of those that are
of no interest - obviously important Bitfolk communications are always of
interest), then I'm all for it.
Cheers,
Luke T
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 13:45, Andy Smith <andy(a)bitfolk.com> wrote:
Hello,
Once again I wonder about switching these mailing lists to
Discourse¹.
Do you have Feelings?
https://doodle.com/poll/28bp29r3uuwp6h68
(not a vote, just a survey)
Cheers,
Andy
¹ https://www.discourse.org/
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users(a)lists.bitfolk.com
https://lists.bitfolk.com/mailman/listinfo/users
6:25 p.m.
Mailing list, please. Don't ask for reasons -- I'll spend far too
much time writing detail that nobody will read.
Hugo.
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 01:44:48PM +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
Hello,
Once again I wonder about switching these mailing lists to
Discourse¹.
Do you have Feelings?
https://doodle.com/poll/28bp29r3uuwp6h68
(not a vote, just a survey)
Cheers,
Andy
¹ https://www.discourse.org/
--
Hugo Mills | In theory, theory and practice are the same. In
hugo@... carfax.org.uk | practice, they're different.
http://carfax.org.uk/ |
PGP: E2AB1DE4 |
6:33 p.m.
On 2019-11-05 13:44+0000, Andy Smith wrote:
Once again I wonder about switching these mailing
lists to
Discourse¹.
Do you have Feelings?
https://doodle.com/poll/28bp29r3uuwp6h68
(not a vote, just a survey)
Yes, perhaps this is only emotive, but I strongly prefer email lists. I
like to know that the mail has been pushed to my mailbox, and that /you/
host the mail archive.
Recently YahooGroups! have made changes (more nails in the coffin),
people can now only be invited. What if Discourse decide to do something
similar? Or what if purge archives? What is Discourse's current business
model, what if that changes by a new investor?
Another thought I have, which may dissuade me from participation is that
I no longer like using bigger company communication bottlenecks. What I
mean is, the closer it is to Fecebook, the less I want to go near it. I
don't want more agency profiling! Yes, I realise YahooGroups was part of
this too, but they've been dead to me for several years, pre-Snowden.
I'm probably a small edge case, but please continue to host the list
with publicly searchable archives.
--
Best regards,
Ed http://www.s5h.net/
6:47 p.m.
Hello,
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 06:33:04PM +0000, ed-bitfolk(a)s5h.net wrote:
Recently YahooGroups! have made changes (more nails in
the coffin),
people can now only be invited. What if Discourse decide to do something
similar? Or what if purge archives? What is Discourse's current business
model, what if that changes by a new investor?
For the avoidance of doubt, while there are hosted Discourse
solutions, it is normally software that you host yourself, like
Mailman, and that's what I'm talking about.
Cheers,
Andy
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
6:50 p.m.
On 2019-11-05 18:47+0000, Andy Smith wrote:
For the avoidance of doubt, while there are hosted
Discourse
solutions, it is normally software that you host yourself, like
Mailman, and that's what I'm talking about.
Oh, that a different perspective. Plain text, bottom posting? Then I'm
all in :)
Would the mail archive remain a single contiguous archive of discussion?
--
Best regards,
Ed http://www.s5h.net/
6:57 p.m.
Hello,
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 06:50:16PM +0000, ed-bitfolk(a)s5h.net wrote:
Would the mail archive remain a single contiguous
archive of discussion?
I don't see too much difference between a Discourse category's list
of topics like:
https://help.nextcloud.com/
or
https://community.grafana.com/c/support
or
https://discourse.ubuntu.com/c/server
and for example the lurker archive of this list at:
https://lists.bitfolk.com/lurker/list/users.html
Cheers,
Andy
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
7:32 p.m.
On 2019-11-05 18:57+0000, Andy Smith wrote:
I don't see too much difference between a
Discourse category's list
of topics like:
https://help.nextcloud.com/
...
and for example the lurker archive of this list at:
https://lists.bitfolk.com/lurker/list/users.html
It could be bias, but Lurker seems to be easier to navigate. You can
jump through months/years, but the Discourse seems to be one of those
infinite scroll ajax things. I think googlebot can index things like
this now, but I don't know.
https://help.nextcloud.com seems to take a while to load, that could be
some dynamic work that isn't stock.
Maybe I just don't like change, but oldtimer mail lists give me a sense
of familiarity that I just don't get through something intended for a
browser.
--
Best regards,
Ed http://www.s5h.net/
8 Nov
8 Nov
1:01 a.m.
On 05/11/2019 13:44, Andy Smith wrote:
Hello,
Once again I wonder about switching these mailing lists to
Discourse¹.
Do you have Feelings?
https://doodle.com/poll/28bp29r3uuwp6h68
(not a vote, just a survey)
Cheers,
Andy
¹ https://www.discourse.org/
I initially voted against, then realised it was *Discourse* not
*Discord* (a different kettle of fish) and switch to *Never used it*, so
apologies to Andy for that.
Like others, my initial instinct was that I'm happy with the way things
are, but this sounds like it can merge the two worlds - web based and
email, so sounds fine to me.
Gavin
10 Nov
10 Nov
4:48 p.m.
On 08/11/2019 01:01, Gavin Westwood wrote:
On 05/11/2019 13:44, Andy Smith wrote:
Likewise, I have never used Discourse in anger, but have seen the web
interface in action. I also like the fact that you can use it like a
normal email mailing list. Best of both worlds, so if I have bashed the
"Go-For-It" button.
--
Regards,
Jan Henkins
Hello,
Once again I wonder about switching these mailing lists to
Discourse¹.
Do you have Feelings?
https://doodle.com/poll/28bp29r3uuwp6h68
(not a vote, just a survey)
Cheers,
Andy
¹ https://www.discourse.org/
I initially voted against, then realised it was
*Discourse* not
*Discord* (a different kettle of fish) and switch to *Never used it*, so
apologies to Andy for that.
Like others, my initial instinct was that I'm happy with the way things
are, but this sounds like it can merge the two worlds - web based and
email, so sounds fine to me.
Gavin
12 Nov
12 Nov
3:06 p.m.
Hello,
On Tue, Nov 05, 2019 at 01:44:48PM +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
Once again I wonder about switching these mailing
lists to
Discourse¹.
Do you have Feelings?
https://doodle.com/poll/28bp29r3uuwp6h68
(not a vote, just a survey)
Closing this after a week. Results were:
Prefer mailing lists: 18
Prefer Discourse: 12
Never used Discourse: 9
No opinion: 1
The same poll was also run on Twitter
(https://twitter.com/bitfolk/status/1191713451586072576) where the
majority of votes (6/18) were for "I don't care".
Don't care: 6
Prefer mailing lists: 5
Never used Discourse: 4
Prefer Discourse: 3
I did expect Discourse to lose. I was mainly interested in how much
recognition and support it has regardless.
Cheers,
Andy
--
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
1620
days inactive
1627
days old
24 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Adam Spiers -
Andy Smith -
ed-bitfolk＠s5h.net -
Gavin Westwood -
Hugo Mills -
Jan Henkins -
Keith Williams -
Luke Taylor -
Paul Tansom -
Phil -
Richard Dignall