20 Jul
2014
20 Jul
'14
1:03 p.m.
Hi all,
Forgive me if this is a little off-topic, but this list seems like the
(rare) kind of forum read by people who might have already thought
about this problem and maybe even come up with solutions:
How do you ensure that your online data is handled correctly if you die?
Regards,
Adam
20 Jul
20 Jul
1:13 p.m.
Hi,
Forgive me if this is a little off-topic, but this
list seems like the
(rare) kind of forum read by people who might have already thought
about this problem and maybe even come up with solutions:
How do you ensure that your online data is handled correctly if you die?
The same way you do when you're alive: you can't.
:-(
That's the quick, pessimistic answer.
It has been known for people to prepay for a service or to entrust
things to a friend or family member.
Regards,
@ndy
--
andyjpb(a)ashurst.eu.org
http://www.ashurst.eu.org/
0x7EBA75FF
1:23 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 02:13:03PM +0100, Andy Bennett wrote:
Hi,
;-)
Forgive me if this is a little off-topic, but
this list seems like the
(rare) kind of forum read by people who might have already thought
about this problem and maybe even come up with solutions:
How do you ensure that your online data is handled correctly if you die?
The same way you do when you're alive: you can't.
:-( That's the quick, pessimistic answer.
It has been known for people to prepay for a service or to entrust
things to a friend or family member.
https://ifidie.org/ is free and looks fairly promising, but the notes
are encrypted using an AES public/private keypair which is generated
server-side and thus untrustable by nature:
https://ifidie.org/faq#security_details
Even though they provide an option whereby the keypair is never
stored, there is no way to be sure that this is really the case. Even
in the likely case that the code is bona fide / trustworthy and
intentionally deletes the generated keypair, it could accidentally
leave traces in RAM (say) which could theoretically be retrieved if
the server was compromised by an undiscovered attacker. And with the
likes of heartbleed recently discovered, this does not seem too
far-fetched.
I guess this could be worked around by PGP-encrypting notes to the
intended recipient on my local machine *prior* to uploading them to
ifidie. In fact, coupled with ifidie's SafeGuards mechanism, that
sounds pretty bullet-proof to me:
https://ifidie.org/faq#dontdie
Thoughts?
1:17 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 02:03:20PM +0100, Adam Spiers wrote:
How do you ensure that your online data is handled
correctly if you die?
Encrypt a text file containing all passwords and instructions using GPG
symmetric encryption with the key derived from a passphrase. This encrypted
file can be left on a webserver safely.
Encode the passphrase using ssss[1] and then share the parts around people
you trust. Instruct these people to never all travel in the same car
together.
When you die, one of them has to be technically competent enough to
reconstruct the original passphrase from the parts and then decrypt the
instructions and the passphrase.
The nice thing about this method is that you can keep updating the encrypted
file without needing to contact all the people every time.
Iain.
[1]: http://point-at-infinity.org/ssss/
--
e: irl(a)fsfe.org w: iain.learmonth.me
x: irl(a)jabber.fsfe.org t: +447875886930
c: MM6MVQ g: IO87we
p: 1F72 607C 5FF2 CCD5 3F01 600D 56FF 9EA4 E984 6C49
1:31 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 02:17:10PM +0100, Iain R. Learmonth wrote:
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 02:03:20PM +0100, Adam Spiers
wrote:
Awesome answer, thanks! Exactly the kind of thing I was looking for -
I knew this list would produce something good :)
How do you ensure that your online data is
handled correctly if you die?
Encrypt a text file containing all passwords and instructions using GPG
symmetric encryption with the key derived from a passphrase. This encrypted
file can be left on a webserver safely.
Encode the passphrase using ssss[1] and then share the parts around people
you trust. Instruct these people to never all travel in the same car
together.
When you die, one of them has to be technically competent enough to
reconstruct the original passphrase from the parts and then decrypt the
instructions and the passphrase.
The nice thing about this method is that you can keep updating the encrypted
file without needing to contact all the people every time.
Iain.
[1]: http://point-at-infinity.org/ssss/
1:38 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 02:31:40PM +0100, Adam Spiers wrote:
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 02:17:10PM +0100, Iain R.
Learmonth wrote:
With a few minutes more consideration, it occurs to me that the
mechanism for sharing the encrypted file would need to be made a
little more resilient than "stick it on a webserver". For example any
number of things could go wrong with the webserver, and if the
deceased was the only one with access to the information required to
recover data from it (hosting account details, root password etc.)
then the information could become unrecoverable. However,
distributing it to multiple places with disparate geographical
locations and access methods should take care of that.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 02:03:20PM +0100, Adam
Spiers wrote:
Awesome answer, thanks! Exactly the kind of thing I was looking for -
I knew this list would produce something good :) How do you ensure that your online data is
handled correctly if you die?
Encrypt a text file containing all passwords and instructions using GPG
symmetric encryption with the key derived from a passphrase. This encrypted
file can be left on a webserver safely.
Encode the passphrase using ssss[1] and then share the parts around people
you trust. Instruct these people to never all travel in the same car
together.
When you die, one of them has to be technically competent enough to
reconstruct the original passphrase from the parts and then decrypt the
instructions and the passphrase.
The nice thing about this method is that you can keep updating the encrypted
file without needing to contact all the people every time.
Iain.
[1]: http://point-at-infinity.org/ssss/ 
1:20 p.m.
On Sun, 2014-07-20 at 14:03 +0100, Adam Spiers wrote:
Hi all,
Forgive me if this is a little off-topic, but this list seems like the
(rare) kind of forum read by people who might have already thought
about this problem and maybe even come up with solutions:
How do you ensure that your online data is handled correctly if you die?
Regards,
Adam
A slightly less pessimistic answer: speak to your solicitor about it. I
see no reason why you couldn't leave instructions in your will.
1:28 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 02:20:30PM +0100, Matt Molyneaux wrote:
On Sun, 2014-07-20 at 14:03 +0100, Adam Spiers wrote:
Of course that's an option, and a paper will is pretty much
unavoidable. But there are undeniable benefits to a complementary
digital approach. It's quicker to update a website than contact a
solicitor, and typically can be done an unlimited number of times
without any extra cost. This is useful considering that my "digital
estate" is generally in more flux than my material assets.
The downside is of course that it's a far less proven approach, so
there's probably a lot more risk something would go wrong than with
the traditional solicitor/will mechanism.
Hi all,
Forgive me if this is a little off-topic, but this list seems like the
(rare) kind of forum read by people who might have already thought
about this problem and maybe even come up with solutions:
How do you ensure that your online data is handled correctly if you die?
Regards,
Adam
A slightly less pessimistic answer: speak to your solicitor about it. I
see no reason why you couldn't leave instructions in your will.
1:43 p.m.
On Sun, 2014-07-20 at 14:28 +0100, Adam Spiers wrote:
*snip*
The downside is of course that it's a far less proven approach, so
there's probably a lot more risk something would go wrong than with
the traditional solicitor/will mechanism.
You could combine some approaches here with a traditional will. E.g.
have a password store that you can keep up to date but have a copy of
the key kept safe by your solicitor.
There is risk there too, but at least you'll have someone to drag
through the courts if that key *isn't* kept safe ;)
1:58 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 02:43:02PM +0100, Matt Molyneaux wrote:
On Sun, 2014-07-20 at 14:28 +0100, Adam Spiers wrote:
*snip*
Yup, good points :)
A related thread of discussion is: how many people have actually
bothered to take care of their digital estate? Given that most people
only started using the internet regularly in the last 15-20 years, I
suspect that awareness of the issue is still worryingly low. A quick
informal poll of this list might be quite revealing: who here has
already taken care of this? Clearly I'm the first to confess that I
haven't ;-)
I would expect readers here to be far better organized in this respect
than the average non-technical person. So if most people here haven't
sorted it yet, everyone else is probably screwed ;-)
The downside is of course that it's a far less proven approach, so
there's probably a lot more risk something would go wrong than with
the traditional solicitor/will mechanism.
You could combine some approaches here with a traditional will. E.g.
have a password store that you can keep up to date but have a copy of
the key kept safe by your solicitor.
There is risk there too, but at least you'll have someone to drag
through the courts if that key *isn't* kept safe ;) 
9:14 p.m.
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:58:00 +0100
Adam Spiers <bitfolk(a)adamspiers.org> wrote:
A related thread of discussion is: how many people
have actually
bothered to take care of their digital estate? Given that most people
only started using the internet regularly in the last 15-20 years, I
suspect that awareness of the issue is still worryingly low. A quick
informal poll of this list might be quite revealing: who here has
already taken care of this? Clearly I'm the first to confess that I
haven't ;-)
I would expect readers here to be far better organized in this respect
than the average non-technical person. So if most people here haven't
sorted it yet, everyone else is probably screwed ;-)
It is something I am a bit concerned about given that I will be 82 next
month. No one in my family has any Linux knowledge, or even knows
what data is stored where.
My wife, for example, knows that I have a model making workshop in the
attic but hasn't a clue how to dispose of the 'stuff' up there but
does have a friend who is also a 'model maker' so could get some
advice but when it but when it come to the genealogy database I set up
for her and her cousin which is hosted on Bitfolk along with my own
family database and a couple of related websites there is no one she
can fall back on in the same way.
My family members all use windows based computers but none of them are
in the least computer savvie.
I clearly need to set down on paper some info about how to find out
who/what I am subscribed to and who to contact, but I need to find
someone to take over maintaining the websites and databases if those
genealogy resources are not going to vanish into a computer
blackhole some time in the future :-(
--
John Lewis
Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server
23 Jul
23 Jul
10:44 p.m.
** john lewis <zen57162(a)zen.co.uk> [2014-07-20 22:16]:
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 14:58:00 +0100
Adam Spiers <bitfolk(a)adamspiers.org> wrote:
** end quote [john lewis]
Taking over resources is probably the key thing. I'm not there yet, so hope not
to be knocked down by the proverbial bus any time soon, but the plan is to
document things properly. All my passwords are stored in a Keepass database, so
having a master password for that on a piece of paper in an envelope covers
that proplem. That would also give a list of all places I have an account
(well, all the recent ones, I'm sure there are some I've forgotten even now).
If I am incapacitated my family would likely have issues with email at some
point given I run my own server and if cards get canceled domains wouldn't be
renewed. I need to train the kids up to be able to work with my documentation!
There would also be the issue of data on my local server, although it would no
doubt soldier on for quite a while without issue being Linux (power cuts
willing).
Our parents, on the other hand, will have no problem at all, since they have
placed me in full control of their digital lives, from maintaining their PCs to
hosting their email.
OK, now I've got the urge to start writing a guide to how things work and where
to get help if needed!
--
Paul Tansom | Aptanet Ltd. | http://www.aptanet.com/ | 023 9238 0001
=============================================================================
Registered in England | Company No: 4905028 | Registered Office: Ralls House,
Parklands Business Park, Forrest Road, Denmead, Waterlooville, Hants, PO7 6XP
A related thread of discussion is: how many
people have actually
bothered to take care of their digital estate? Given that most people
only started using the internet regularly in the last 15-20 years, I
suspect that awareness of the issue is still worryingly low. A quick
informal poll of this list might be quite revealing: who here has
already taken care of this? Clearly I'm the first to confess that I
haven't ;-)
I would expect readers here to be far better organized in this respect
than the average non-technical person. So if most people here haven't
sorted it yet, everyone else is probably screwed ;-)
It is something I am a bit concerned about given that I will be 82 next
month. No one in my family has any Linux knowledge, or even knows
what data is stored where.
My wife, for example, knows that I have a model making workshop in the
attic but hasn't a clue how to dispose of the 'stuff' up there but
does have a friend who is also a 'model maker' so could get some
advice but when it but when it come to the genealogy database I set up
for her and her cousin which is hosted on Bitfolk along with my own
family database and a couple of related websites there is no one she
can fall back on in the same way.
My family members all use windows based computers but none of them are
in the least computer savvie.
I clearly need to set down on paper some info about how to find out
who/what I am subscribed to and who to contact, but I need to find
someone to take over maintaining the websites and databases if those
genealogy resources are not going to vanish into a computer
blackhole some time in the future :-(
3566
days inactive
3569
days old
11 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Adam Spiers -
Andy Bennett -
Iain R. Learmonth -
john lewis -
Matt Molyneaux -
Paul Tansom